Childhood Roundup #1

I have a few shorter more focused posts in the works, including my practical short version of On Bounded Distrust. In the meantime, it makes sense to continue to clean out the backlog of roundup style things.

Let Your Children Play

We have gone insane on this.

Sane 2022 parents of 10-year-olds: I would like to let you go outside without me. I am terrified that someone will call the cops and they will take you away from me.

That is a thing now. As in parents being thrown in jail for letting their eight year old child walk home from school on their own.

As they stood on her porch, the officers told Wallace that her son could have been kidnapped and sex trafficked. “‘You don’t see much sex trafficking where you are, but where I patrol in downtown Waco, we do,'” said one of the cops, according to Wallace.

Did things get more dangerous since 1980, when we were mostly sane about this? No. They got vastly less dangerous, in all ways other than the risk of someone calling the cops.

The numbers on ‘sex trafficking’ and kidnapping by strangers are damn near zero.

The incident caused ‘ruin your life’ levels of damage.

Child services had the family agree to a safety plan, which meant Wallace and her husband could not be alone with their kids for even a second. Their mothers—the children’s grandmothers—had to visit and trade off overnight stays in order to guarantee the parents were constantly supervised. After two weeks, child services closed Wallace’s case, finding the complaint was unfounded.

Wallace’s sister has started a GoFundMe for her. She is in debt after losing her job and paying for the lawyer and the diversion program. She also hopes to hire a lawyer to get her record expunged so that she can work with kids again.

One of my closest friends here in New York is strongly considering moving to the middle of nowhere so that his child will be able to walk around outside, because it is not legally safe to do that anywhere there are people.

Claim that UNICEF thinks Dutch children are the happiest in the world and that this is because they bike everywhere, things are designed to make this work, and they therefore have freedom to move around.

Childless World

This is also related to the thing where a lot of places give off the vibe that life does not involve children, and children are a weird, shameful and irresponsible lifestyle choice.

I sense this type of attitude ebb and flow in power as I move between places.

School Daze

It’s not like the kids were attending school that much anyway (MR). The chart is San Francisco, but it is far from unique in this. This headline says ‘41% of NYC students were chronically absent’ last year, versus a historical expectation of ~25%.

Note that in school parlance, ‘chronic absentee’ means you missed 18 days of school out of 180. Thus, someone who reports as demanded 90% of the time is still ‘chronically absent,’ no matter the cause.

Public school enrollment continues to be 3% below pre-pandemic levels. Many responded with ‘at least some good has come of this.’

The degree of learning in schools, even high end ones, leaves something to be desired.

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I simply don’t know how to update far enough in the appropriate directions.

A paper compared students answers on homework questions to their later answers to the same question posed on an exam. They found that in the past this correlation was high, and said this meant that the homework helped students. One obvious alternative explanation is that knowing X is correlated with knowing X.

None of this is ‘benefit.’ Then, the study notes that this correlation has gone down, due to a large group of students who don’t show this pattern – they get the homework right by copying it, then get the exam question wrong anyway.

Via MR, paper from India says that 18 months of school closure cost students 0.7 sigma declines in math and 0.34 in language by December 2021, but two thirds of it was made up within six months, with a claim that an after school program aided this recovery. If it is this easy to catch back up, a lot of time must be getting wasted.

Null hypothesis watch via MR, as paper claims short unit on self-regulation in first grade has substantial positive effects on children’s entire academic careers.

Math Trainer program for faster mental arithmetic. You know, for kids.

A parable.

This was originally in the context of kids in particular trouble. It works even better as a simple description of school in general. This is not an outlier-only problem. What do you do when kids don’t want to go to school? What percentage of kids do you think want to go to school, or would if they felt they had any choice in the matter? If they thought ‘not going’ wouldn’t lead to escalating retaliations?

Can anyone wonder why in-person schooling raises youth suicide rates (paper)?

Along with everything else it does, school dramatically raises the economic cost of raising kids even if tuition is zero. Those who can have their children help run farms or other businesses have a large advantage over those that do not while also having larger families. Does doing this cripple their children’s future? It does if society explicitly retaliates sufficiently hardcore against those not sacrificing a decade to properly signal. If it is more a question of who learns more and more useful things, the answer is far less clear. As long as some attention is given directly to core academic subjects I would be inclined to take someone who had real world experience trying to accomplish things or especially starting and doing business, over those who spent that time in classrooms.

Fight Fiercely Harvard

Rob Henderson speculates it might be good that we don’t expand Harvard and other schools, because those with those degrees feel entitled to elite status. Disgruntled people who didn’t get the status they feel entitled to cause instability. An alternative hypothesis is that the elite status they want is going to Harvard and their kids going to Harvard, which you can totally fix by letting more people go to Harvard.

Tyler Cowen calls his post the battle for academic standards. I would have called it the battle against academic standards.

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Several responses along the lines of ‘Harvard is getting more selective’ and Orin responds with variations on ‘a possibility worth examining.’ No. Effect size is too big.

Half of all sub-4.0 space eliminated in ten years because the students are that much smarter and more interested in maximizing grades? There’s that many more great students out there? Really?

The decline in acceptance rate is also, upon quick examination, mostly a mirage. It is driven by a rise in applications. I do not think Harvard is much more selective in 2022 than it was in 2012. What is happening is the practical cost of applying to Harvard is declining. Also students are realizing that even if they have a 1% chance of getting in, what is it worth to get into Harvard?

When I was applying to colleges, my high school refused to cooperate with more than seven applications. Thus I didn’t apply to Harvard or MIT, despite them being obviously my #1 and #2 picks in some order if I were to get in, because they seemed too unlikely even as reaches, and am still bitter Stanford tricked my parents into eating a slot. If I’d had a common application and free run of the place? I’d have applied for a minimum of 20-30 places, maybe 50+, on the theory that someone might randomly value qualifying for the USAMO on a particular day more than anyone else, and the value of a better college or a strangely generous scholarship is super high – toss them all in the air for a few thousand dollars, and then see what my real choices were. I doubt it changes where I end up going given how things worked out, but you never know, maybe MIT, Harvard or Yale says yes. It sure drives down acceptance rates at the top.

My old high school’s traditional rival, Thomas Jefferson, withheld news of National Merit awards from families, which many say is sabotaging their college admissions. If you want equal outcomes, you have two options, and one is a hell of a lot easier than the other.

I push back against the idea that this advances no interests. College admissions are ideally a matching problem. In practice, on the margins of merit scholars, college admissions are a zero sum signaling game. This is not going to change the number of kids admitted to various schools, or the amount of scholarship money available. If you want to advance the interests of your group at the expense of another group, on whatever basis, then this seems like a relatively harmless way to do that. And yes, this would advance the interests of politically preferred groups, because it disproportionally hurts other students from other groups in the zero sum game.

They still gave the awards to students, but too late to include them on early admissions applications. That’s quite the albatross on its own. It is where the extra push is most valuable.

I do see advantage in not telling parents or other students. This lets recipients decide whether to inform others.

Why would a student not inform others about such an award? Presumably because the parents would then do things the kid wants to avoid, like endlessly bragging about it to everyone, or forcing the kid to apply to schools they don’t want or competitions they hate, or things like that. I speak from personal experience here.

Similarly, if a student wants to tell other students about the award, they can do that. If they want to avoid this for whatever social reasons – and I can think of quite a few good ones – they can avoid it. Making a big deal out of it is not obviously doing the kid any favors.

And yes, sometimes that choice to hide this info will be because the kid is less ambitious, or less prioritizing of academics, and thus will end up at a ‘worse’ school. That is their choice. I do not see this as obviously hostile.

Tyler Cowen says universities are in crisis and declining in status. He notes the new emphasis on computer science, where they are outcompeted by the private sector for status because status there is based on capability and accomplishment and real world tests.

He notes there is youth mental health crisis, which he says is not the fault of colleges. Why is he so sure? We have structured young lives around taking on debt to go to college, and putting immense pressure on to follow the rules of the dance so you can get in. Ideological movements that are rooted in college campuses and that instill their ideas into children are, shall we say, not helping their mental health outlooks. If we got rid of college as a default life path, I bet that solves a good portion of our youth mental health crisis.

He does not link up declining academia with grade inflation or declining academic standards. Seems like an important piece of the puzzle.

He says students have more absences, excuses and missed assignments lately, and says this makes it harder to run an effective university. My guess is this is more a symptom of decline than a cause. Students have realized the returns to anything but the sheepskin effect are not so high, and required efforts to pass are lower than ever.

This goes hand in hand with his observation that the smartest people no longer want to be in academia. Its requirements seem onerous, jobs are difficult to get, and for what? I would at this point classify trying to be a professor as similar to writer or rock star, something you only do if you can’t not do it.

What Is Good In Life?

Teach your children well.

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I simultaneously would have answered ‘no,’ would expect most people in my social circles to answer no, think it is clear that this being a near-universal is a very bad sign, and also that 25.6% is terrifying. It’s something like ‘there is a right amount of the thing this is a proxy for, and that very much is not it.’

Child Tax Credit Blues

(I plan to talk more about this on its own in the future.)

A good idea is to Give Parents Money to help them raise their children and to reduce the net financial burden on those who decide to have (more) kids. It reduces child poverty, it is equitable, it makes people’s lives better, it increases birth rates that need to increase, it enables more people to have the things that matter in life.

The problem is that, despite initial hopes that such an obviously good idea would also be highly popular, this has not proven to be the case. A lot of that is due to people really disliking it when either such payments are framed as ‘welfare’ or when they go to ‘people who don’t need them.’

So both the too poor and the too rich need to be screened out, despite such payments to both such groups making good sense. Very poor children need our help. Those that are ‘rich’ face effectively very high costs to raising children, due to the cost of schools, nannies and space in the expensive places they live, and the high hourly opportunity cost of their own time. It certainly makes sense to give them relative help, shifting funds from the childless rich to the rich with children, which is what the credit would do (since it is then paid for via progressive taxation that can be adjusted to be more progressive, if desired).

The other problem is that means testing is a logistical nightmare in the best of times, and mostly we suck at implementation. For example, see the latest proposal in New York. It pays out quarterly, so everyone’s income needs to be estimated in advance to decide who gets those payments in what quantity, and then everyone has to jump through hoops to explain when expectations should change and that they made ‘good faith’ efforts to keep estimates accurate and so on.

Whereas the obviously correct solution, as Matt Yglesias points out, is to pay everyone the maximum, at least on the ‘too rich’ end, and then collect it back in the form of an additional tax. Which would then in turn point out that the system adds up to an absurdity, which I would consider a feature but I would expect the legislature to consider it a bug. Perhaps this could dodge being misrepresented if the rich person algorithm was entirely handled on one’s tax return.

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21 Responses to Childhood Roundup #1

  1. Anonymous-backtick says:

    “We want to recognize students for who they are as individuals, not focus on their achievements” hooooooooooo-weee! Ayn Rand didn’t portray her villains negatively enough!

  2. Basil Marte says:

    Paper on in-person school and suicide: I wonder whether extending this to lack of independence would help. Pardon the politicized example, but apparently children are allowed to make the decision on whether to transition before they are allowed to walk a few blocks without a parent, because the message went out that kids were killing themselves for lack of the former. If Everybody Knew™ that children were suffering sacred-magisterium harm from lack of freedom, that would either work or lead to even more insanity (logically, demands that all children always be on suicide-watch level of supervision).

    “Childless world”: it is intuitive that the arc of history would bend that way. Before the Industrial Revolution, goods manufacturing, cooking, childbirth, etc. all happened at home. Then it turned out that dedicated single-function spaces and a relentless compression of process variance (incompatible with the presence of children) allowed the world to become ever richer and better, thus most functions moved into factories/offices, cafeterias, hospitals, etc. The logical endpoint is when the “home” is solely a dormitory; many (esp. young professionals) already live somewhat like this. It would be entirely reasonable if childcare — already broken out into kindergartens and schools a century ago — fully followed the pattern; residential schools would provide not just daycare but, um, nightcare. This setup, where the parent(s) would move to the location, also makes more sense given the constraint that children are not allowed to commute by themselves thus a parent has to pick them up from school anyway. (Or the school has to run a walled-off transit network with low scale and abysmal efficiency.) Obviously, most implementations in today’s America would be horrible, but there used to exist decent examples elsewhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz_communal_child_rearing_and_collective_education

    The “school dramatically raises the economic cost of raising kids” link doesn’t work for me. Do you have a screenshot or a link to a nearby tweet? I’d like to read the original claim; as quoted, it’s obvious nonsense.
    – The option of free daycare/school cannot have negative value.
    Having a job/occupation that is incompatible with childcare at home, coupled with schools being stupid (e.g. insisting that a parent pick up the kids well before their counterfactual working hours end) does increase the cost of raising kids. Since the obvious solution is primarily “there’s nothing wrong with latchkey kids” and secondarily making schools perform their function better (allowing kids to stay there for a few more hours), I don’t consider the quote a good-faith description of where the problem lies.
    – If the claim is that school is de facto mandatory and thus a small fraction (~1%) of families is losing the value of their children’s unskilled labor, sure, that is expensive to those households. To the extent that policy exists, it has come into existence because the fraction of households harmed by it declined into (political) irrelevance.

    • Naamah says:

      Yeah, that’s part of it, perhaps, the lack of clear awareness of how this lack of autonomy ends up hurting kids. I can really see it in the one younger person I’ve ended up talking with. He’s just been given so little freedom (a tendency magnified because he’s autistic and people give autistic young people even less agency) and it’s stunted him. With trans kids, while people disagree about granting kids autonomy in that way and how likely they are to “grow out of it”, the suicide stats for trans people are pretty well-known. People vastly over-estimate stranger danger and they definitely don’t realize the consequences of not giving kids any autonomy in so much of their life, because they’re a lot more abstract than “super dysphoric and depressed trans kid who isn’t allowed to transition tries to off themselves” (and even that one isn’t something a lot of parents grasp well) and because those consequences happen to every kid, not just a few, it’s easy to normalize it as “just the way things are” or dismiss it as “because of those damn smartphones”.

      • Basil Marte says:

        I’m not talking about abstract long-term consequences; I’m talking about “kids are unhappy” incidentally causing extra suicides. People being unaware of the harm is not the problem. (To a first approximation, I don’t believe the first class exists. In https://www.worksinprogress.co/issue/the-story-of-vaccinateca/ the multiple middle-school children who played leadership roles did not learn it from Ms. Barnaby in elementary school. (Yes, if there is a 0.01 sd effect, that would have a huge effect at tails this far out. Obvious research idea.))

        The problem is instead a common pattern of how “battlefields” of argument look. (These will be approximations of the loudest rather than the best arguments, and the focus is on their structure, even if their proponents wouldn’t put them this way. For the time being, I’ll also ignore whether the various arguments are true.)
        One side argues that some ordinary, mere discomfort should be traded off in large quantities to gain small/negligible/imaginary quantities of some special benefit. They are fully aware of the discomfort, they are simply ignoring it, and call anyone who complains selfish. (E.g. “mask always everywhere forever”, “never leave kids alone because stranger-danger”, “hold active shooter drills”.)

        The other side — motivated by the discomfort — then has to argue by different means. Typical patterns:

        Claim that the special harm doesn’t exist. (No stranger danger; “just a flu”.)
        Claim a superior alternative means to the same end. Note that this superiority must be something other than comfort. (“ivermectin”)
        Claim the preferred means causes a special harm. (“Masks cause breathing difficulties and hence X”; I was wondering about this slot.)
        Take the conversation into an unresolvable swamp, far away from object-level issues. (“But I have the right to…”)

        To make the situation even more fun, a lot of people mentally fit complex/opaque problems to the schema of “a policeman is arresting us” rather than a physical hurdle. In which case, it is entirely intuitive to them that doing a basically arbitrary, and invariably uncomfortable/humiliating thing is the way to reach the best outcome available under the circumstances; trying to directly solve the problem (analogous to resisting arrest, trying to run away) invariably invites more severe punishment. However, if they put this understanding into straightforward words, the result would look something like “we have angered Apollo, He has smitten us with disease, now we must show contrition by wearing these uncomfortable masks, until He chills out and makes it go away”. Since they know that this would sound unconvincing nowadays, this is not said out loud, instead they form a large part of the first group. They may replace “the discomfort is sort of the active ingredient” with “the discomfort doesn’t matter”, but that doesn’t make them any more convinceable by “X would be more convenient”.

  3. Yrro says:

    I cannot even articulate how angry I am about the National Merit thing. National Merit was literally life-changing for me, giving me a free ride through college that was worth more than my parents’ household income. The idea that a school would intentionally sabotage that for their students is disgusting.

    When I look at my life history, I see the American Dream the way everyone tells you it doesn’t exist anymore — I didn’t start all the way at the bottom, but my family was at least easily “lower middle class.” Modern Progressivism seems intent on tearing down every system that provided me social mobility because that mobility was based on “Merit” instead of “Equity.”

  4. Dylan says:

    Education Realist argues the National Merit thing is a big nothing. It was about some little known category that is meaningless, not the “real” semi-finalist status that actually matters.

    What’s a National Merit Scholar?

    • J.S. Bangs says:

      Thank you for posting this. Without that explanation, I would have assumed that the news was about National Merit semi-finalists, and it turns out that you have to do a close reading of the news sources to realize that that’s not the case.

  5. hello_there says:

    >So both the too poor and the too rich need to be screened out, despite such payments to both such groups making good sense.

    I think if things aren’t handled well on the “too poor” side you can very quickly have a perverse incentive where people have kids they can’t properly raise because it gives them income. But I definitely agree that if a poor person was already going to have a child anyways, giving them some money to help the child would be good. I don’t know of any good solution around this.

    • TheZvi says:

      In theory you can create a scenario where things are handled that badly, but I think mostly this requires a Welfare-style rule where not working results in much more income than working – giving both the $0 income and $20k income people the same check seems unlikely to ever do this?

      • hello_there says:

        I’m not talking about people having children instead of working. I am talking about having children to gain an additional source of income, which people at any income level could hypothetically do but the trade off of “inconvenience of a child” vs “gaining money” becomes worse as someone’s wealth increases.

        Normally people have a child because they want a child for its own sake. If they don’t want a child, they would usually abort or give it up for adoption. But if you give someone a $X yearly cheque for each child, they might think “I could cut corners and raise a child for the cost of $x/2, pocketing the remainder for myself”. Which is a bad outcome because it will lead to a very bad upbringing for the child.

  6. Seb says:

    So, I know for a fact that there are undergraduate programs at Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford in which the professors are implicitly (and sometimes explicitly based on a student’s donations to the school) forbidden from giving students realistic grades.

    Also, the situation is only marginally better in other places. I taught at a major Canadian university for years and every year my faculty told me what the grade distribution and class average would be, and I would face implied consequences for not following this grading scheme. Also, I was very rarely allowed to fail someone, even when they absolutely deserved it.

    After a number of years I finally just jumped ship and got a job in the private sector. Most university programs, as far as I can see, are just degree mills. Students pay inflated tuitions and receive their degrees. Any friction caused by the actual attempt to educate students is frowned upon and made to disappear.

    Actually I could go on about this problem forever so should just stop here.

    • TheZvi says:

      To the extent that these things could be documented and detailed, I don’t think this has been properly done, and it would be a valuable service.

      • Seb says:

        I think you’re right. I envision numerous difficulties (I’ve been out of academia for almost a decade, I don’t have the receipts for most of this, etc), but if I can organize it in an easily digestible format, then I’ll let you know.

    • Biff_Ditt says:

      Come on, at Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford? Why would any undergraduate at these schools have any problem doing anything other than crushing a class? They’ve spent their entire lives getting perfect scores on everything, plus extracurriculars, plus internships, plus the requisite summer in a developing country doing some project.

      • Dylan says:

        Legacies, athletes, smart kids more interested in networking and resume building than grinding.

        • Biff_Ditt says:

          Is my model inaccurate? I was under the impression that you LITERALLY had to have a perfect GPA and be in the 95th percentile IQ to even be considered for admittance as a baseline. I thought the 3.5-3.8 GPA but you’re a star crew recruit or a legacy but-you-can-sneak-in days stopped in the late 90’s. You’re telling me there are students at these schools in 2023 who don’t have perfect high school grades?

        • Seb says:

          I have friends and colleagues teaching at Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, and at least 7 other big universities across North America (as well as Cambridge and the Max Planck Institute and a number of schools in Canada).

          A substantial number of them have encountered situations where they have given students a realistically earned B+, only to be brought into a high level meeting with the university administration where they were forced to inflate the grade of a student who did not deserve it.

          Interestingly, none of my colleagues in Europe have had this happen.

          I get that I’m just some rando on the internet to you, and you can take or leave what I say, but I am not lying here.

        • Biff_Ditt says:

          Are these assessments with more defined answers (math, science, etc) or more vague stuff like writing papers in the humanities and social sciences?

  7. Westward says:

    Yes, I’ve had a woman threaten to call child protective services because my six year old was walking 10 yards ahead of me on a path outside a community pool. I had a police officer pull over in his cruiser in a the tourist area of a city when my three kids (ages 7-11) were walking 20 yards ahead of me, and interview us for negligence. I had a person knock on my front door to tell me my five year old was sitting on the hood of my car in my driveway and I should be careful because of all the perverts out there.

    I’m a latchkey Gen Xer and this was all such bullshit.

    But we’ve also had our 12 year old son bike 2 miles to and from school for a year in our small city without interference. And our 12 year old daughter takes the light rail to another city an hour away with a friend every month or so.

    So, yes these overprotective incident happen, but keep in mind, the is some media filtering on the dangers here though not to the same degree as the media filtering around the dangers of stranger violence.

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